What keeps Katherine Trebeck awake at night?
Can we create an economy that serves people and planet? As co-founder of the Wellbeing Economy Alliance, Dr. Katherine Trebeck has spent much of her life trying to answer this question. She sits down with Oliver Pelling to discuss what this vision might look like in the Australian context and why we should remain hopeful that great change is possible.
“The task is to channel our inner three-year-old,” says Katherine Trebeck on a Zoom call from her front room in Canberra. It’s a Monday in October and Katherine is a little tired from ping-ponging across the country over the last few weeks to launch a new report, ‘The Economy We Could Have’, which applies wellbeing economics framework to the Australian context. “Three-year-olds are always asking, ‘why?’,” she continues. “To me, it’s about being prepared to not take symptoms at face value, but to ask why. When you keep doing that, you find yourself face-to-face with the economic system, and who’s winning and losing in that system.”
Dr. Katherine Trebeck is a political economist, writer and an advocate for economic systems change. She’s a consultant to the Club of Rome, a strategic advisor to the Centre for Policy Development, and a co-founder of the Wellbeing Economy Alliance. If you’re new to this work, wellbeing economics asks: do we exist to serve the economy? Or can we create an economy that serves us? ‘The Economy We Could Have’, released by The Next Economy, explores how Australia could embrace a wellbeing economy, and what it would take to get us there.
Wellbeing economics is having a moment. In October, the Doughnut Economics Action Lab’s Andrew Fanning and Kate Raworth released the ‘Doughnut 3.0’ – an updated version of their Doughnut Economics framework, which now monitors global trends in social shortfall and ecological overshoot. A feature-length documentary, Purpose (starring Katherine and Lorenzo Fioramonti), is taking the notion of wellbeing economics to a global audience. Katherine was also recently in Melbourne to launch the new paper to an adoring audience, and she was instrumental in the National Forum On Wellbeing held in Canberra from 21-23 October.
We were lucky to talk to Katherine in more detail about her work and her hopes for a future in which wellbeing is front-and-centre.
This interview has been edited for clarity and length.
Oliver Pelling: You’ve been working on wellbeing economics for a long time, and I know progress on these types of interventions can be both slow and incredibly hard to measure. What keeps you engaged in the work?
Dr. Katherine Trebeck: Personally, I'm still excited about economic systems change. So many of the challenges facing our world and our communities have economic roots. And I've just got really impatient with the extent to which the conversations and policy responses seem to be not up to that magnitude, they seem to be just about fighting over better band aids, catching up to the damage once it's done. And I think what's exciting is that more and more people are starting to realise that the economy is one of the root causes of so many of these challenges.
There is no shortage of amazing ideas and different frameworks, different policy solutions that show what [wellbeing economics] can look like, and people just rolling up their sleeves and delivering it here in Australia and around the world. And it seems the more dire things get, the more the movement is galvanising. So that's almost like a hopeful paradox – there are so many existential challenges facing the world. And at the same time, there is this expanding, bubbling up of this incredible diversity of work.
“There's a need to build now, but also profoundly dismantle institutions and policies that are locking in the current system.”
Oliver: You mentioned the diversity of the work – where does wellbeing economics fit in to it all?
Katherine: Everyone will be using a different language and have a different emphasis in what they want to talk about with economic system change. I tend to think of the wellbeing economy as a bit like a picnic blanket on that. It's not there to say, ‘Oh, we're another school of thought, pick us forget all the other ideas, but to emphasise the commonality across all those different schools of thought, whether that's Doughnut Economics, the Solidarity Economy, economy for the common good, First Nations futures, or post-growth, steady state, feminist economics. All those amazing schools of thought that have their different resonance with different communities, different audiences, but at their core, they're all about a really quite profound rethinking of the purpose of the economy.
Oliver: If you explained wellbeing economics to a stranger in the street, it’s hard to imagine anyone being against the concept. So how do we continue to bridge the gap from fringe theory to the mainstream? Is it really a case of just waiting for things to get worse, until there are no other options left?
Katherine: I hope not. I really hope not. And some people are thinking that. Some people are thinking, how do we just get ready to build the Phoenix out of the ashes? But I personally can't go there because of the extent of suffering that letting it break to the nth degree will entail. So I think there's a need to build now, but also profoundly dismantle institutions and policies that are locking in the current system.
In the report I talk about this idea of Lego wins, which came from when I was living in Scotland and would do video calls with my nephews. They'd take the camera and they'd say, ‘Oh, look at my bedroom’, and they'd have Lego scattered across the floor, all disconnected, not yet adding up. They hadn't made something with it, they hadn't connected it. But all the pieces were there.
I could rattle off 20, 30, 50, different policies that governments here in Australia and around the world have brought in that have potential to contribute to building a better economic system. I could rattle off the same amount of amazing initiatives led by enterprises and communities that show better things are possible. But they're prototypes – they're like the Lego pieces: scattered, disconnected, and hence vulnerable to push back and being trodden on. And so it's not a shortage of ideas, it's not a shortage of evidence of the need for change.
Oliver: How do we work through that to find the coherence or the collectivism we need to build the new thing?
Katherine: I think what’s holding us back, on a societal level, is that we haven't yet changed our mindsets around how we think about the economy. That dominant way of thinking about the economy is so entrenched in the economic discourse – this idea that it's all about more productivity and more growth will be the solution to the challenges we’re facing. Or that growth, in and of itself, is a good thing without questioning why we think that.
I'm a bit of a geek in that I store a lot of opinion polling when it comes across my desk, and from here in Australia and around the world, and there is so much opinion polling showing that people want much higher levels of equality, they want action on environment, they want action to take care of people. And of course, we know neuroscience: we know that when people are in nature or in close relationships they are less stressed. All these information points indicate something similar.
“There was no conversation connecting the extent of environmental breakdown to increased insurance premiums, increased cost of food and vegetables due to crops failing, and so on. So I think the task is to find a way to have those discussions.”
The question that keeps me awake at night is how do we turn that level of support into more active mobilisation that pushes politicians to sate down the vested interests that are acting against this agenda? I don't know how to do that at scale. And it's no one's job to do it at scale.
Oliver: What do you think that mobilisation looks like at scale?
Katherine: I think it looks like loads and loads of conversations where people feel heard and understood, where they feel they've had a chance to look at what's pissing them off and stressing them at the moment. But then not just stopping there, but working with them to identify the economic root causes of those challenges.
To give you an example, all the debate about the economy in Australia over the last few years has been around the cost of living crisis, which was a very real concern for so many people, as they saw their costs going up and their incomes stagnating in comparison. But there was very little conversation that made the connection between the cost of living crisis and the way we design our economy. There was no conversation connecting the extent of environmental breakdown to increased insurance premiums, increased cost of food and vegetables due to crops failing, and so on. So I think the task is to find a way to have those discussions.
Oliver: This work can be overwhelming. The highs can be very high and the lows very low. How do you look after yourself and your mental health through it all?
Katherine: This is probably a bad week to ask me, because I'm in the midst of being on the road and I don't think my brain's working particularly well. I feel my brain is tired at the moment. But how I have my little rituals. I live near a hill, and so I try get up that hill and soak up the smell of eucalyptus and the big views across the mountains – that nourishes me. I love cooking, and there's something really tangible about cooking. Yesterday, I was doing some pickling. And you know, this work is not immediately tangible, but I can hold up this jar of pickled chilies, and I can at least feel a sense of efficacy about creating a jar of pickled chilies. And I'm pretty obsessive about an evening walk now.
One other thing is just spending time with colleagues in the economic change movement and just to refuel, recharge and remind yourself that you're not alone. I was at a conference a few weeks ago, which I'd been on the fence about attending, and I was so glad I went, because I got to hang out with people who are all working on economic change. And I came back buzzing, it was just awesome. Connecting with your community is so important and so restorative.
Want more? Explore Katherine Trebeck’s ‘The Economy We Could Have’ report.
